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Thread: Increasing the sebum production in oil glands for dry eyes

  1. #1

    Increasing the sebum production in oil glands for dry eyes

    I know alot of doctors will say use warm compresses and melt the oil that is clogging your oil glands. But what if you don't have clog oil glands. Maybe your just not getting enough sebum oil? I truly believe in my case and also for many others this could be the problem. You need water and oil to maintain good eye health. For some you could just have a oil based problem and that's the reason why you can't retain the water in your eyes because lacking the sebum. Now I am wondering if their is any solutions to speeding up the oil glands. I myself can definitely tell I am lacking oil all around my body. So their could be a connection between that in my eyes. I know hormones have a great deal to do with how much sebum you provide for your body.

  2. #2
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    I asked dr. latkany if this was possible and he said no. I am still skeptical about this though because if you think about it, it is a liquid and all liquids have the ability to dry up. At the same time it is an oil... But still if you think of a pile of oil on a road or something, it will evaporiate right?

  3. #3
    Out of respect to Dr. Latkany Its a fact this would help because it has been tested on woman with menopause. I mean its common sense if you not having clog glands seen in MDG. Then its a good chance your low on sebum oil and that it could be the reason your tear film all messed up. I mean whats the whole point of using warm compresses to get the oil to come on to the eye surface, because the oil is important for the tear film to be healthy. So why wouldn't having more sebum increase help the eye surface? I guess it also depends on what your condition is with your dry eyes. You could have a water based eye problem and your oil is fine. It seems to me it all depends on individual person.

    I just wish their was a way to increase your sebum production without messing with your hormones. I mean their could be a way but I haven't figure it out. I know if you increase salt intake it retains the water moisture in your body and protein helps as well. I haven't really seen a traumatic outcome.

    I myself can tell I am lacking sebum oil all through out my body. My hair, skin eyes are all dry. Even in the summer after I will get done with playing sports Ill sweat but then be dry as if it was the winter. I can't take a lot of showers ether. I truly believe their is a connection between sebum production in my body. I also think this would be common with many others having my problem.

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    I think you are right
    I have a very dry skin + dandruff(dry scalp)and i never sweat much either
    I also watch my weight so am constantly on a low fat diet, which probably makes me even dryer.I use creams on my skin rather than water
    This is why we take omega 3 oils like fish and flaxseed
    I read somewhere that maybe all the low fat dieting was responsible for some of the dry eyes
    So it can only do good if you increase orally your water and good fat intake ie omega 3 or even 6 and 9 but NOT saturated fats

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    do either of you take systemics that could be drying you out?

    i have wondered if exovac or salagen would help with dry skin.

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    I take anti inflamatories and anti depressants (tricyclic in a small dose to help chronic pain from arthritis of the spine)
    Cant say i have noticed any drying effect - and i had to up my anti -depressant lately
    My eyes are well under control Thank GodHowever i am struggling with the pain of sciatica, and symptoms of upper and lower spine
    I am waiting to see a spinal surgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRiBaL View Post
    Out of respect to Dr. Latkany Its a fact this would help because it has been tested on woman with menopause. I mean its common sense if you not having clog glands seen in MDG. Then its a good chance your low on sebum oil and that it could be the reason your tear film all messed up. I mean whats the whole point of using warm compresses to get the oil to come on to the eye surface, because the oil is important for the tear film to be healthy. So why wouldn't having more sebum increase help the eye surface? I guess it also depends on what your condition is with your dry eyes. You could have a water based eye problem and your oil is fine. It seems to me it all depends on individual person.

    I just wish their was a way to increase your sebum production without messing with your hormones. I mean their could be a way but I haven't figure it out. I know if you increase salt intake it retains the water moisture in your body and protein helps as well. I haven't really seen a traumatic outcome.

    I myself can tell I am lacking sebum oil all through out my body. My hair, skin eyes are all dry. Even in the summer after I will get done with playing sports Ill sweat but then be dry as if it was the winter. I can't take a lot of showers ether. I truly believe their is a connection between sebum production in my body. I also think this would be common with many others having my problem.
    I definitely do not have clogged up glands, however i do have inflamed eyelids/glands which i think is obstructing the glands and turning off the oil production. But the low production of oil could be causing the inflammation- although DL said it was the other way round. its like a chicken egg scenaro, noones sure what came first.

    topical homones to the eyelids can decrease inflammation and testosterone can cream can encourage them to produce oil. But so far i have had minimal benefit from progesterone cream, but better than anything else i tried.
    I want a cure

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    Quote Originally Posted by stella View Post
    I think you are right
    I have a very dry skin + dandruff(dry scalp)and i never sweat much either
    I also watch my weight so am constantly on a low fat diet, which probably makes me even dryer.I use creams on my skin rather than water
    This is why we take omega 3 oils like fish and flaxseed
    I read somewhere that maybe all the low fat dieting was responsible for some of the dry eyes
    So it can only do good if you increase orally your water and good fat intake ie omega 3 or even 6 and 9 but NOT saturated fats
    im the same, dry skin, dandraff, pale- non oily skin. Fish oils havent helped with any of it.
    I want a cure

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    Even if we are lacking in meibum(the oil the meibomian glands produce)surely it should be possible to instill a similar oil in a drop
    Dr Holly's clinitas ultra 3 (Freshcote) is supposed to replenish all 3 elements of the tear film as do some other drops ie aqueous ,oily, amd mucous
    I must say they really do make my eyes more comfortable
    The drops + the heat and massage - which i suppose helps to maximize one's own meibum ,seems to do the trick for me
    I occationally get mild symptoms in dry conditions like heating fans or too much TV and computer ,but the days of constant agony day and night have gone
    The biggest improvement i saw with clinitas was night time No more agony trying to open my eyes after sleeping

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    Quote Originally Posted by stella View Post
    Even if we are lacking in meibum(the oil the meibomian glands produce)surely it should be possible to instill a similar oil in a drop
    Dr Holly's clinitas ultra 3 (Freshcote) is supposed to replenish all 3 elements of the tear film as do some other drops ie aqueous ,oily, amd mucous
    I must say they really do make my eyes more comfortable
    The drops + the heat and massage - which i suppose helps to maximize one's own meibum ,seems to do the trick for me
    I occationally get mild symptoms in dry conditions like heating fans or too much TV and computer ,but the days of constant agony day and night have gone
    The biggest improvement i saw with clinitas was night time No more agony trying to open my eyes after sleeping
    Clinitas is the best eye drop i have found, as it does stay on the eye abit longer, along with celluvisc- but that blurs abit, everything else is just useless!
    Having said that the main prob for me with drops is that they just dont last long enough and they dont make the eye feel normal, just more moist, and dont protect against enviroments, except celluvisc as its thicker. I think my eyes are just to bad and others who have more oil, with dropd it may just be enough.
    So even a complete copy of the mebium for me- i would need a constant flow of it- an implant!- if they are able to do this- that would be great. Surely they can replicate the oil gland and impant it somewhere else in the eyelid where theres no inflammation!
    I want a cure

  11. #11
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    Sazy,

    are you using Clinitas Ultra or just the Soothe?

    My doc has recommended the Soothe but I'm afraid to try them, having had such bad reactions to practically everything in the past....


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    Glad i found this thread. I have began to believe this is my problem. I have combination skin that gets oily and very dry.

    Perhaps dr. Latkany stated that because it might not be naturally occuring that you can produce to little oil?

    I believe this might be a result of 2 years of accutane in my case. Not sure if anybody else has taken that or similar medication.

    I came to this conclusion because i was diagnosed with blepharitis but i was unsure what kind, i never asked at the time and moved to another city.

    I noticed anytime i took anything that helped control oily skin or improve mgd oil production (zinc, doxy, accutane, vitamin A, NAC, resveratrol ect..) my eyes became dry and red within the hour. All these help reduce and control oil production.

    I discussed this on the acne.org message board, I dont have acne anymore, but was concerned with what accutane did to my oil glands in my eyes.

    Several posters informed me and linked me to clinical study where accutane literally shrinks or reduces oil producing glands, and decreased Meibomian gland production.

    Although the study also stated meibomian gland production returned once accutane was discontinued, i think mine never did. Surely my acne now cured must not produce the oil it used to. I also looked at high school pictures where I noticed my eyes were nice and bright white, but my face was red and oily and of course i had acne.

    Either way what i take that helps is biotin. I take a small amount because it increases oil production and when I take to much i notice my acne returns, however my eyes also are much less dry so i have tried to find a balance.

    Its hard to find medical evidence of biotin causing oily skin, but google biotin oily skin and alot of people noticed oily skin when taking it. While my skin does get more oily taking it, my eyes also improve.

    I think this maybe why dr. lange is suggesting taking GLA (primose oil) with omega 3.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyeproblems View Post
    Glad i found this thread. I have began to believe this is my problem. I have combination skin that gets oily and very dry.

    Perhaps dr. Latkany stated that because it might not be naturally occuring that you can produce to little oil?

    I believe this might be a result of 2 years of accutane in my case. Not sure if anybody else has taken that or similar medication.

    I came to this conclusion because i was diagnosed with blepharitis but i was unsure what kind, i never asked at the time and moved to another city.

    I noticed anytime i took anything that helped control oily skin or improve mgd oil production (zinc, doxy, accutane, vitamin A, NAC, resveratrol ect..) my eyes became dry and red within the hour. All these help reduce and control oil production.

    I discussed this on the acne.org message board, I dont have acne anymore, but was concerned with what accutane did to my oil glands in my eyes.

    Several posters informed me and linked me to clinical study where accutane literally shrinks or reduces oil producing glands, and decreased Meibomian gland production.

    Although the study also stated meibomian gland production returned once accutane was discontinued, i think mine never did. Surely my acne now cured must not produce the oil it used to. I also looked at high school pictures where I noticed my eyes were nice and bright white, but my face was red and oily and of course i had acne.

    Either way what i take that helps is biotin. I take a small amount because it increases oil production and when I take to much i notice my acne returns, however my eyes also are much less dry so i have tried to find a balance.

    Its hard to find medical evidence of biotin causing oily skin, but google biotin oily skin and alot of people noticed oily skin when taking it. While my skin does get more oily taking it, my eyes also improve.

    I think this maybe why dr. lange is suggesting taking GLA (primose oil) with omega 3.
    How much Biotin do you take? I was on Accutane 18 years ago and I suspect that it damaged my m-glands. It definitely damaged the glands that provide oil to my lips.

  14. #14
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    Sazy123: I tried the 20% autologous serum from the Vissum Center and it didn't do anything for me. I'm in the process of getting it at 100% which I discovered to have worked for a larger number of people:

    http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articles/PMC1772389?accid=PMC1772389

    Isn't it possible to analyse a tear to find out if if there is a sebum or mucin deficiency? This would tell us what artificial tear look for.
    Last edited by Ariel; 02-Aug-2010 at 15:12.

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    Eyeproblems...

    I'm also interested to know how much Biotin you take. I too believe my dry eyes are caused from previous accutane use. (Took it 16 years ago.) Any information you have would be appreciated.

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    So "not producing enough oil" is not possible?
    Last edited by Ariel; 17-Aug-2010 at 19:29.

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    increasing oil production

    In theory your meibomian glands secrete oil to keep your tears from evaporating...This rapid evaporation of tears is what causes dry eye. The meibomian glands are the sebum producing glands that you are talking about. BUT, they don't produce sebum like the rest of the pores/glands on your face and body. They are different. They produce a substance that is called Meibum, which is a different consistency of oil from sebaceous gland secretions. Though you are right in saying that hormones such as androgens (testosterone) control sebum production. BUT this is not the case in the meibomian glands. In theory I believe the amount of oil the Meibomian glands produce is controlled by Estrogen's or estradiol in men (Hormones). BUT I also believe the viscosity and the quality of the secretions themselves is also controlled by Androgens (testosterone) too. In the case where you talk about how androgens cured some women in Menopausal forms of dry eye. What I believe to have happened was this...

    In menopause the womens hormone levels dropped below normal. Since testosterone is already not a huge player in the womens bodies. I believe when the hormone levels plummeted due to menopause the testosterone in their body's was non existent. Thus I further believe that in this absence of testosterone there was an over abundance estrogen that was present in the cells of the meibomian glands that the time...This estrogen I believe caused their Meibomian glands OVER produce secretions (Oil). This over production of oil caused dry eye...How? I believe this over production of oil that happens in puberty that causes acne on your face...the SAME causes the meibomian glands to clog up causing MGD and blepharitis in a similar way.

    So to explain how the women were cured of their dry eye. When the doctor gave the women androgens (Testosterone)...I believe that the testosterone caused the glands secretions to slow down and be made consistent. Thus their glands didn't clog up and there secetions were returned to normal curing blepharitis and MGD in their cases.

    As for men an the rest of you who suffer with dry eye whose hormone levels are correct. I believe blepharitis is caused by a specific hormone imbalance in the meibomian glands cells themselves. This hormone imbalance is caused by the use of topical corto steroid eye drops used to treat conjuntivits.

    In this case, Simply stated Your blepharitis was probably caused by a temporary hormone imbalance in your body...and when you took corto steriods for pink eye during that temporary hormone imbalance in your body...It some how changed the hormone metabolism of the specific cells inside the meibomian glands themselves. Thus causing them to metabolize too much estrogen causing them too over produce oil causing them to clog up and cause Blehparitis and MGD an infection.

    Once the infection set in...the bacteria that ate on those oils secretions produced toxins which broke down the oil and oxidized it. Which mean the oil turned into air that was being produced from the glands. When the bacteria if it got in to far enough stages possibly had the potential to damage the meibomian glands cells themselves. This damage would cause the cells to produce anti androgens causing them to refuse hormones to create oil.

    So where does this come into increasing that oil production?
    Ill explain here
    to increase said oil production, you must first eliminate the infection and get rid of the clogs in the meibomian glands that is causing the inflammation.
    To do this would be to use antibiotics and an anti fungal eye drop.
    You would also have to keep the eyes as moist as possible constantly with artificial tears, AND introduce more estrogen's than androgens to the meibomian glands cells themselves to stimulate gland production of oil (meibum). when the anti androgens are gone when the infection and inflammation is eliminated...when the hormones are introduced the glands will secrete oil, and the right amount of it again.

    Like I have heard, It is even possible to heal the glands as well...As two German eye experts would say. See even if the glands pores or cells have atrophied(meaning scarred over), It is possible to open them up again with duct probing. It is a new procedure that takes a special surgical device and pokes it through the scarred over gland pore, thus opening it up again to function. If the infection is eliminated and constant moisture is present...the cells will finally have a chance to heal, so when said estrogen's and androgens are introduced they will be jump started out of death into producing oil.

    So let me know what you all think about this theory folks.

  18. #18
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    fellowresearcher I think this is a really strong theory & will be trying it out myself. Just wondering if you thought a topical testosterone cream/gel applied to my eyelids would be effective in restoring function once the initial infection is under control? I'm 28 male. thanks

  19. #19
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    I also will be trying the probing in August with Dr. Maskins in Tampa. Currently trying to get infection under control. You are spot on!!

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