Moisture chambers: taking a chance with Shragie Abramowitz

[Rojzen]

I had a marvelous experience today that reminded me of how simple it is, at times, to get the help we need, if only we expect the best of people. Tooling through a little shopping strip this afternoon, I spotted an optical shop that looked particularly novel. Inside, frames were assembled in odd arrays, and the selection of frames was astonishingly tasteful and original. I began to wonder if the optician behind this very engaging operation might have any interest in experimenting with custom moisture chambers, and soon a lovely and incredibly warm young man emerged from the lab, in back, to answer my question. Yes, optician Shragie Abramowitz of Pikesville, MD was indeed interested in learning all he could about moisture chambers, and even bragged that he was "handy" and "creative," and interested in coming up with solutions. In a few days, I will bring him all my old custom moisture chambers, made in Ohio, Florida, and New York, along with my gorgeous RecSpecs, out of which I can barely see. He, in turn, will research Eagle Vision and other plastic shield material, and we will attempt a new pair of glasses.

Many, many times, in the past, I have asked random opticians to take a chance on making moisture chambers, and the answer has always been "Why bother? There's no mass market in it." Today, the young and able Mr. Abramowitz renewed my hope, and I'm thinking that those of us who need and want custom moisture chambers should never give up with local opticians, because we may just find someone who cares, at last!

I dedicate this happy update to our very own George T, whose courage in traveling to Miami, recently, for his first pair of moisture chambers, really uplifted me.

[Lucy]

I love this story and I'm already a fan of Shragie Abramowitz!! Please keep us updated.

Lucy

[Rojzen]

Will do, Lucy! In meantime, GeorgeT has reminded me that we can get the Eagle Vision plastic for custom moisture chambers on our own, and then supply it to our local opticians. . .I'm not sure how many novice opticians would know how to insert the chambers to form cylinders, and then to close these cylinders with the proper glue or tape, but the process does not seem difficult, and buying the materials on our own could indeed represent some savings. . .

More on Shragie soon. . .I should add that he produced an interesting new motorcycle spectacle, while I was with him, which is not goggle-like at all. . .It's simply got side shields made of leather. . .Vegans among us will not pursue this, and the product did not provide a very complete seal, but it's interesting to see something old-fashioned like this emerge. . .The look was very retro. . .

[bassfan]

This guy has quite the name! It sounds like its straight out of a Harry Potter book. Are you sure you werent just dreaming about someone caring about dry eye glasses?

[Lucy]

I know nothing of Harry Potter (except what I try to avoid on tv) but I still like Shragie's name. I think my next pet's name will be Shragie Abramowitz!!
Works for either male or female.......cat or dog........or fish........or reptile.

[GeorgeT]

Hi,

Below it's a link for moisture chamber panels from EAGLE VISION :

http://www.dryeye.org/pdf/moisteye.pdf

Please buy it on your own rather than have an optician do it......

Good Luck !!

George

[Rebecca Petris]

I'm a little confused. I thought that they sell only to opticians? (I have spoken with them about this in the past and also today.)

[Dotanne]

I managed to buy the plastic from an Eagle vision agent in NZ after emailing Eagle vision. Then I turned up at a recommended optician (though I don't think he(their technician) had done anything like this before) with the pack (which included instructions) which cost about $100 and though I had to get the correct sort of frames that the plastic could be put into, he managed to put everything together. They haven't fallen apart either! I have plenty of spare plastic for next time too.

So I managed to buy the plastic myself! The Internet is a wonderful creation.

Cheers
Dot

[GeorgeT]

Hi Rebecca,

Why do you think they are selling only to opticians?
I don't see a reason....They want to make money, so they want so sell as much as they can. It does not matter who buys...
Correct me if I am wrong !!!

All best !

George

[Rebecca Petris]

1) Eaglevision doesn't make consumer products, they make medical products for sale to professionals. That's their market. And they are not really marketing the moisture chamber much at all (if they were they would at least have some up to date literature and not that awful picture that looks like something from the 70's...) since almost no one knows about it.

2) They want to ensure the product is cut and fitted correctly. By all accounts it's not the easiest task in the world, so I can imagine they would not be happy to have it in the hands of consumers that would try it themselves and perhaps damage their glasses then call and complain.

I'm not arguing one way or the other, just explaining why it would be quite reasonable from their standpoint to take that position. If people can get it direct and take it to an optician, well and good.

[Rojzen]

I have formed the same impression as Rebeccca's, over time. When I first discovered moisture chambers, from an old article that sported that awful, outdated photo of a woman wearing HUGE plastic-framed glasses, with klunky chambers attached, I called Eagle, and they refused to sell plastic directly to me. The rationale was that they don't simply sell the plastic; rather, (and this has been my experience 3 times, so far), they PLACE cylinders of the plastic in the space between frames and lenses supplied by the optician, and then send the stuff back to the optician, for the custom fitting...

Admittedly, I haven't called Eagle about this lately. . . but I will give that a try, as I plan the next visit to my Shragie .

Now if we can indeed get Eagle to send us the sheets, as Dotanne and GeorgeT have demonstrated, I still worry about whether a novice optician can successfully place these, as cylinders into the frame. . .I find the most problematic part of the process is closing that cylinder around the lens. . .Some use scotch tape for this, and others use glue. In all cases, the binding material eventually disintegrates, in my experience. On the other hand, all that will be necessary, after placement and sealing, is cutting the excess on the front, and shaping the back. . .

I'll report back on Eagle's response to my particular request shortly. . .

Cheers!

[kimby2007]

Hello All:

I recently got fitted for a pair of Moisture Chamber Glasses in NY. Turns out I really don't need them, but that is a different story. The fitting was done by Scott Kornfeld of Woodbury Optical. He has over 10 yrs experience fitting moisture chambers. He doesn't use Eagle Vision plastic but rather got plastic sheets from another company and then tailors them specifically to the patient. The result is actually quite impressive and discreet. I am 25 so I would be honest about that one. He gives lectures all around the East Coast on how to construct them and if the optometrist you have consulted is interested may consider talking to him about the construction/plastic obtaining process. Just a suggestion that may be worthwhile to look into.

[Rebecca Petris]

Alright, this was the impetus I needed, though I know it's been suggested before - I will find/make a place to start listing these helpful opticians who are working on moisture chambers. Heaven knows we need them!!

[Dotanne]

The sheets I got are called ' rectangular MOIST EYE moisture panels' from EagleVision. The pack contains 8 panels and there are instructions inside but it would be very difficult for an inexperienced person to put them in place. No glue is used. It was quite difficult for the technician to do. The panels are shaped and then inserted between the lens and the frame. Hence the need for a certain type of frame to make this possible. They are trimmed again to fit one's face. They do not seal against the face but fit up against the skin. Mine do fog up at times especially when I have just used drops so the humidity around the eyes is quite high. They are very discreet and don't seem to show up in photos. Someone who didn't know about them commented to me that 'Is that a bit of cellotape on your face?' The children at school ask me about the plastic on my glasses occasionally.

[Rojzen]

Thrilled to find another fan of Scott Kornfeld's! Scott has made three pairs of moisture chambers, for me, over the years, and his talents are enormous. He is a perfectionist, and has a grasp of the immense importance of what he does for each patient.

Since Rebecca may be compiling a list, I'll cast the names of the following opticians who have made me highly effective customized moisture chamber glasses, in recent years:

Scott Kornfeld, Hicksville, Long Island (Woodbury Optical)

Angel Perez, D.O., Bascom-Palmer Eye Institute Optical Department (Miami, FL)

Dave Rogers, Master Optician (but now retired), Ohio State University School of Optometry

I've located names of other practitioners who are reputed to make moisture chambers, such as one in Texas and another in San Francisco, but I've not made successful contact with any of these.

To those experiencing fogging, right now, in the early days of wearing the moisture chambers, please consider sticking with them for the sake of your ocular surface health. Prolonged wear of the chambers can steadily extend your tear break-up time, and this, in turn, can promote corneal health. As Scott often reminded me, if the fogging is too much, it's OK to poke tiny airholes into the chambers. (I don't need to do that, but others may. . .)

[Lucy]

This is something I could live with as long as they were fitted properly and didn't feel like wearing socks that kept faling down.

It would be interesting to find an optician who could and would find the materials necessary and had the experience to make the chambers fit to size. I think I'll make a few phone calls next week. Even with Panoptx RX and other glasses and RGP's, I don't think you can have too much dry eye stuff. I have observed people wearing glasses with these side shields and never thought twice about it.
Lucy

[jazhou]

Thrilled to find another fan of Scott Kornfeld's! Scott has made three pairs of moisture chambers, for me, over the years, and his talents are enormous. He is a perfectionist, and has a grasp of the immense importance of what he does for each patient.

Since Rebecca may be compiling a list, I'll cast the names of the following opticians who have made me highly effective customized moisture chamber glasses, in recent years:

Scott Kornfeld, Hicksville, Long Island (Woodbury Optical)

Angel Perez, D.O., Bascom-Palmer Eye Institute Optical Department (Miami, FL)

Dave Rogers, Master Optician (but now retired), Ohio State University School of Optometry

I've located names of other practitioners who are reputed to make moisture chambers, such as one in Texas and another in San Francisco, but I've not made successful contact with any of these.

To those experiencing fogging, right now, in the early days of wearing the moisture chambers, please consider sticking with them for the sake of your ocular surface health. Prolonged wear of the chambers can steadily extend your tear break-up time, and this, in turn, can promote corneal health. As Scott often reminded me, if the fogging is too much, it's OK to poke tiny airholes into the chambers. (I don't need to do that, but others may. . .)

Hi Rojzen, I am a long-time DES sufferer. I am considering getting a customized moisture chamber. I live in DC region.( you seem to live in DC as well???) Anyway I wonder if there is an optician that do the job in DC. Or I have to go to NY or Miami? Thanks,

[Rojzen]

Before I located Shragie Abramowitz, who has expressed a genuine and enthusiastic willingness to make me his first pair of moisture chambers, I looked hard for a shop in the D.C. metro area that had some experience with these. . .I located one shop in D.C. that listed moisture chambers on its web site, but multiple attempted contacts with them yielded not so much as a return message. . .I have, moreover, repeatedly pestered the Wilmer Eye Institute at Hopkins, in Baltimore, to start making moisture chambers, but the optical shop there has zero interest in catering to our needs, in this way.

Hence, if you need an experienced moisture chamber maker, it may still be necessary to travel to Long Island or Miami. . .(My optician at Ohio State, who made moisture chambers, has retired, and the shop there does not make these now. . .) BUT, if you are open to letting Shragie give this a try, I think you should come up to Pikesville, and consult with him. . .If interested, just say the word, and I'll get some more contact info. on Shragie for you. . Personal messaging might be best for that. . .

Shragie (Abramowitz) has a high-end, quite fashionable optical operation, and I am a little concerned that his prices for frames and lenses may be high. . .but who knows. . .I haven't yet gotten that far with him. . .

Also, as much as I love moisture chambers, I am currently hanging on to my last pair for dear life, hoping they last long enough to enable me to move next to Dr. Yee's Micro-Environment glasses. .Might you be able to wait for these, as well? The big unknown is whether these will provide as good a fit as CUSTOM-cut chambers do. . .I am trying to be hopeful that they will. . .

[jazhou]

Thanks Rojzen. Great information. I will probably choose Scott Kornfeld at Woodbury Optical since he has a lot of years of experience. Also he is relatively close to my place.

I still have a few more questions if you dont mind, Rojzen:-)
1) Does the moisture chamber fit in any glasses? I am very near sighted, and therefore my RX is really HIGH. Will this be a problem? Do I need to get a new pair of glasses, or the doctor can make the chamber on my current one?

2) Does normal insurance cover this? I dont mind paying on my own. But it would be nice to save a few bucks....

3) How long will the procedure take? How many visits do I need to prepare for? Since I live in Maryland, I prefer to making only one trip to get everything done.

This moisture chamber thing seems to really give me a new hope. I am a computer engineer, and need to stare on the screen 8 hours a day. Sometimes my eyes hurt me so much that I was pondering to quit my job!

Thanks again! I really appreciate your help.

[Rojzen]

Yes, moisture chambers can be inserted into the frames of an existing pair of glasses, but the shape of the frame is critical. Scott Kornfeld strongly prefers oval-shaped, smallish lenses/frames. Also, because lenses have to be removed, and then replaced after insertion of the moisture chambers, the existing glasses should be strong and in good shape. Don't worry about Rx: I am severely near-sighted (and farsighted), too, and so long as the lens can be made for regular glasses, you're AOK adding on moisture chambers.

I have never found an insurer willing to cover the extra chambers as a medical device. I twice had a famous opthalmologist at Wilmer/Hopkins write a gorgeous letter explaining that I have a medical necessity for moisture chambers, and my insurers still turned me down. Scott Kornfeld's office invented the standard letter, however, that can be submitted to insurers, and so it is definitely worth a try. I believe you'll have to have an M.D. sign on to the letter, and I would be thrilled to learn that your insurer has ruled favorably.

Things may have changed, but when I've worked with Scott, I've always had to make two trips. Possibly, if you already have well-fitting glasses suitable for moisture chambers, you can save one trip by sending these to Scott, upon which he can insert the chambers before you travel to him for the customized cutting. I always go back the next morning after a fitting, for fine-tuning, btw, and please think about an overnight stay, for that purpose. When you talk to Scott, he will come up with a strategy for your particular situation. If you need guidance on getting to Hicksville, let me know.. The Long Island Railroad goes to that town, but then you need a cab to get to the office. I always drive, though, as the multiple connections to NYC and LI are hugely expensive for me.

You are going to feel HUGELY better with the chambers, in all likelihood. . .I can't wait to hear your feedback. . .In meantime, have you also looked at the MEGs option? If the inserts/gaskets on these actually work like moisture chambers, we are going to be able simply to get new lenses any time we want, and then snap on the gaskets, which are, themselves, replaceable. . .

This reminds me to mention the one and only gripe I have about moisture chambers: If they are soft plastic, these are very fragile, and require immense gentleness during cleaning; If the are rigid (like the ones made at Bascom Palmer a few years back), then tend to crack, after a while. . .Plus, because the chambers are not removable, debris does accumulate in the frame groove, and this tends to be permanent. . .Scott can do an annual clean-out for you, however, if you like. . .This is one of his many great talents. . .

Enjoy!!!

[stella]

I dont suppose anyone would do them for us in GB ?
We always seem to be left out of these wonderful innovations

[jazhou]

Thanks for your quick response, Rojzen! I cant wait to call Dr. Scott Kornfeld tomorrow.

As for MEG, is it ready yet? Has anyone actually used it? I thought it is still not ready for prime time yet.

Also Rojzen, you know any good dry eye doctor in MD, Northern VA or DC? I used to visit Dr. Robert Latkany. But he is in NY, not exactly close to where I live.... He is a great doctor. I think everyone in this forum agrees....


Thanks gain!

[Rojzen]

Is it possible that some optician is quietly already making the moisture chambers in the UK? I so wish I had some contacts there. . .I know that anyone more knowledgeable will chime in here, though. . .

RE: Scott K . .He is a master optician, but not an optometrist. . .and so while he manages the office in Hicksville, he is not a "dr.". . .I am excited to think he'll be getting your call tomorrow!

On the MEGs.. .I don't know if Dr. Yee market-tested them, but they're not commercially available yet. .Rebecca has indicated that we shall see them within months, however. . .I'm so hoping that the gaskets are pliable enough to produce a good seal for all of us who want these. . .I hope to buy a pair on terms that enable me to return them, if the seal is not good. . .

RE: a good dry eye doc in the D.C. metro area. . .I believe that the biggest name, and most research-oriented doc around here, is Dr. Esen Akpek, head of the dry eye clinic at Wilmer/Johns Hopkins, in Baltimore. . . She is a real scholar, but I am not sure she offers more ingenuity and caring than do many other doctors. . .At Georgetown, there are the eye docs trained by Dr. Michael Lemp, a longstanding expert who wrote a major textbook on dry eye. . .All the teaching hospitals in this region probably have solid ophthalmologists for dry eye. . .

I switched from care at Wilmer to care at the Optometry School Clinic at Ohio State about a year ago (I have family there), when I discovered an immensely caring, practical, and engaged optometrist there. . .Ohio State also sports a research optometrist who recently won a huge NIH grant for her groundbreaking discovery of new meibum lipids. . .But that's Ohio. . .I mention it, though, because, as so many here have found, it is often the optometrists in a community that are leading-edge in DES. . .

If I lived in D.C., in any case, I think I would return to Georgetown. . .unless I could find an optometrist in the area that was deeply interested in DES. . .

Alas, Dr. Latkany cannot be everywhere. . .Possibly, though, in our Yellow Pages, we have some references to MD/DC/Va practitioners. . .

[jazhou]

Is it possible that some optician is quietly already making the moisture chambers in the UK? I so wish I had some contacts there. . .I know that anyone more knowledgeable will chime in here, though. . .

RE: Scott K . .He is a master optician, but not an optometrist. . .and so while he manages the office in Hicksville, he is not a "dr.". . .I am excited to think he'll be getting your call tomorrow!

On the MEGs.. .I don't know if Dr. Yee market-tested them, but they're not commercially available yet. .Rebecca has indicated that we shall see them within months, however. . .I'm so hoping that the gaskets are pliable enough to produce a good seal for all of us who want these. . .I hope to buy a pair on terms that enable me to return them, if the seal is not good. . .

RE: a good dry eye doc in the D.C. metro area. . .I believe that the biggest name, and most research-oriented doc around here, is Dr. Esen Akpek, head of the dry eye clinic at Wilmer/Johns Hopkins, in Baltimore. . . She is a real scholar, but I am not sure she offers more ingenuity and caring than do many other doctors. . .At Georgetown, there are the eye docs trained by Dr. Michael Lemp, a longstanding expert who wrote a major textbook on dry eye. . .All the teaching hospitals in this region probably have solid ophthalmologists for dry eye. . .

I switched from care at Wilmer to care at the Optometry School Clinic at Ohio State about a year ago (I have family there), when I discovered an immensely caring, practical, and engaged optometrist there. . .Ohio State also sports a research optometrist who recently won a huge NIH grant for her groundbreaking discovery of new meibum lipids. . .But that's Ohio. . .I mention it, though, because, as so many here have found, it is often the optometrists in a community that are leading-edge in DES. . .

If I lived in D.C., in any case, I think I would return to Georgetown. . .unless I could find an optometrist in the area that was deeply interested in DES. . .

Alas, Dr. Latkany cannot be everywhere. . .Possibly, though, in our Yellow Pages, we have some references to MD/DC/Va practitioners. . .

I just called Mr. Scott Kornfeld. He said he will mail me the information regarding the moisture chamber before I make the trip. Great! I am really looking forward to the trip...

Again thanks for all the information!

[Rojzen]

Wish I were joining you on the trip to see Scott. . .His work is gorgeous. ..Enjoy and keep us posted. . .

[Jody]

What are these moisture chamber glasses that you all talk about? Wiley? Panoptx? Where do you get these? I just ordered goggles off ebay that someone talked about. Is these anyone out there that lives in Colorado? Preferably near Denver?

Jody

[Rojzen]

MEGs stand for Micro-Environment Glasses, which are in development by an ophthalmologist in Texas who has already gotten a patent on them. At the following website

http://www.jyi.org/features/ft.php?id=740

is a brief discussion of these, with a pretty good photo. The benefit we anticipate from this product is that it will fill a new niche: It will allow for insertion of any prescription lens, and will provide removable, clean-able, replaceable moisture-retaining cups that will come in a variety of sealing levels. . .We're not sure whether the frames will come in different sizes, though, and the cups are standardized, leaving possibility that they will not provide the kind of seal that a customized chamber added on to glasses may provide. . .

For Panoptx and Wiley options, the Shop here has excellent info. . .with graphics. . .

[Eli]

Not sure I like this at all:

"......Myopic/ short-sighted people (people who cannot see distant objects as clearly as the near ones) who spend more than eight hours a day at the screen per session are 82% more likely to develop glaucoma along with the symptoms of CVS. Increased fluid pressure within the eye can compress optic nerves, which causes glaucoma leading to blindness if not treated. One of the major symptoms of glaucoma is blurred vision. ......"

[calli66]

Eli,

I have never seen that statistic predicting glaucoma for myopic people who use computers. Where did you read it? I have studied myopia articles/info for years, and the main risk usually discussed is for retinal detachments and thinning of the retina at the optic nerve----because the stretching/lengthening of the eyeball.

As for Computer Vision Syndrome--even non-myopic folks can develop this if spending long hours at the computer. The blurriness is a result of focusing fatigue (accommodation) and prolonged convergence (eye muscles have to hold that position of turning the eyes slightly in--to see closely). The solution to this can be to get "computer glasses" (like weak readers), or to get weaker glasses (set for mid-distance) for myopes. This doesn't help with the convergence/eye muscles, though----you have to take breaks for that---"look up and away" often.

Calli

[jazhou]

Wish I were joining you on the trip to see Scott. . .His work is gorgeous. ..Enjoy and keep us posted. . .

Hi Rojzen,

I made the trip to long island in early January. Scott made the moisture glasses for me. Now I've been wearing it for 3 weeks. I can feel it gives me some relief. But I have to say I am a bit disappointed since I had high hope on it. I am still struggling while sitting in front of a computer...

I am really frustrated now. I've seen a lot of doctors. Most doctors say I am having a moderate DES. That means I should not suffer this much pain...

I've also seen dr. Robert Latkany. He diagnosed that I have rosacea/MGD.

Right now my daily routine includes: Restasis(twice daily, before bed and after bed), warm compress(twice daily, before bed and after bed), lid scrub(twice daily), and fish oils. I've been stick to this routine for at least 9 months. None of them is working so far.... BTW I also have two lower punctual plugs in my eyes:-(

I am trying all the options I can find. So far I am out of luck. I am thinking to take a long leave of absence. Thanks...