Serum Blood Draw-First Time Nervous Newbie

[Cali]

I am having my blood drawn Monday morning, what should I expect? I've read on some of the threads to drink a lot of liquids three days prior to the draw, that will help according to a lab tech. But then I read a post by a woman who said, "I thought I was going to die." That spooked me. I'm 5'7", 135. Do they take so much you feel faint? I will be on 100% serum initially because my eyes are real bad. The pharmacist said that since I am on 100%, I will only get about 30 days of drops. And that when my eyes start to feel better, I can talk to my doctor about a 50% or 20% dilution, so that I'll get more drops.

Any advice for a autologous serum newbie?

[SAAG]

Compared to how much blood gets drawn when you donate blood, the amount they take to make serum drops is nothing. I've been getting it a while now, so I know how much serum to ask for - I insist that they draw 117 ml of blood (that's 13 vials containing 9 ml each), because for me, that makes about 50ml of 100% serum and lasts about 3 months.

However, their standard blood draw at my lab is only 7-9 vials of 4 ml each (total 28-36ml of blood)... in my case, it took some convincing to explain to the lab tech that YES, I do need more blood drawn since I am on 100% serum and not the 20% that most of their other clients are on. Fortunately, I have really large veins, so they can take all those vials at once from me... apparently most people have smaller veins that can't handle that many vials being taken out at once (I suppose maybe then they could take some from each arm )

I don't look when they draw the blood because I know that will weird me out and I don't want to faint or get nauseated (purely psychological causes... not saying the blood removal itself is the problem, rather it's the thought of a needle in my arm taking blood) - I make small talk with the lab tech to get my mind off what they're doing and it works well for me (hopefully I'm not too annoying with my chatter haha).

Just make sure you've eaten properly before you go so that you won't have low blood sugar (which can make you more likely to faint or feel nauseated for example) and for sure drink enough fluids so you're not dehydrated (not saying to go crazy on fluids or anything, I just drink normally and that way I know I won't be dehydrated)

As for the "thought I was going to die" comment you read, after doing this every 3 months for quite a while now, I think that either the poster had freakishly bad luck at the lab and they hurt her with the needle, or she gets weirded out easily around needles. I've had some lab techs do it and it barely hurts at all, and sometimes I get someone where the needle moves when they are doing it and yes, it can be rather uncomfortable (but it's not horrible or anything like that). Have you ever had an I.V. in your arm? It's not much worse than that really...

All in all, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it. It's no big deal, just an annoyance to have to go and get it done more than anything else.

As for using the drop themselves, I felt a bit nauseated the first time I put them in my eye because the very idea of it grossed me out - but I quickly got over that and don't even give it a second thought these days. You'll be fine too... you'll see

[farmgirl]

I believe that drinking lots of fluids prior is good advice. Have you ever had blood drawn for lab work? It is the same process. I am exactly the same height and weight and have had as many as 18 vials drawn at one time for lab work and went about my day normally. If you are prone to low blood sugar swings I recommend a power bar or piece of fruit to eat after and of course a bottle of water in the car. I guarantee you are NOT going to die so don't waste any brain cells stressing about it....cheers...F/G

[Cali]

Thank you both.

SAAG, I am going to print out your reply and show it to the lab tech. The compounding pharmacist told me I would get about a 30 day supply of 100% (maybe 30 days or less). I have to drive an hour to get to the lab, so I'd rather they try to take more blood.

Farmgirl, bringing a power bar is a great idea. I am prone to low blood sugar swings so I'll bring my favorite pumpkin, date, and agave raw bar with me. I've been trying to eat a lot of healthy, raw, organic fruits and vegetables these last few days, so that my blood is of high quality. Craving a burger (grass fed, free range of course).

[Blinks]

Hi Cali,

Sending you all best wishes for your lab visit tomorrow. Hope your serum drops will provide you with relief. For what it's worth, I've been a regular blood donor and never had a problem. Let us know how it goes!

Blinks

[SAAG]

Hi Cali,

Good luck with the serum! Hopefully your pharmacy follows a similar protocol as mine does - where I get it, they say it's good for 3 months if kept frozen, hence my insistence on getting a 3 mo. supply of serum drawn at once.

[PotatoCakes]

I'm TERRIFIED of needles, to the point of hyperventilation, and as someone that is 5'7 and quite a bit less than 135, I haven't died yet. Not only have I not died but I actually look forward to my draw. Weird, huh? The first time was really scary given my fear of needles. I don't know what the restrictions are now but there was a time that I was not eligible to donate blood because I don't weigh enough. I also have a problem with collapsing veins. Couple of things that make the draw nearly pleasant... the nurse is fantastic. This is all she does -- draw blood. She's an expert. She knows which arm is better, she knows how to keep me distracted and she's just plain nice. Tell the person that draws that you are very afraid. They will be extra gentle with you. Drink plenty of water beforehand. Being will hydrated makes the draw less painful and also ups your serum levels. I increased my percentage from 50% to 75% because I was getting so many vials of drops from my 10 vials of blood that it was lasting me beyond what my physician feels is effective, mostly because I come in well-hydrated.

Bring a bottle of water or something that makes you feel good, with you to the draw. I've realized that my water bottle is my security blanket for a draw. I focus on hydration and when I forget my water bottle, the draw hurts more. At this point, it's likely mental but whatever works, that's what you do. Bringing a bottle of water with me, works, so I bring my water bottle. Maybe for you it will be something else but whatever it is, use it if it makes you feel more secure.

You'll do great. The people drawing your blood are professionals. Chat and stay focused on something other than the draw and let the pros do their thing; you sit back and clutter your mind with anything that makes you feel good and get ready to try the drops.

[Cali]

So, I asked for extra vials to be drawn. LabCorp usually draws 5, I got 9. 5 vials from my right arm, then 4 from my left. We had to switch arms because my cells I guess became "sticky." Just finished the drawing of the 9th vial and down I go. Broke out into a sweat, started vomiting. It was pretty bad. The lab tech and a big guy named "Chris" had to walk (carry) me into another room where I could lie flat on gurney. But, I thought, it's worth it....9 vials!!!! Note, I was well hydrated, ate a good breakfast, brought a power bar and coconut water. I was prepared.

So, this is Newport Beach, California. I had to wait 3 hours for my serum drops to be made. I walked slowly around Fashion Island, a very upscale outdoor mall, very envious of everyone in glasses (because unlike me were smart enough not to get LASIK and not be vomiting in a lab, and having goopy ointment all over their eyes, etc., etc., etc., envy, shame, anger etc., etc., etc). The compounding pharmacy calls me to tell me they are ready. And get this, I have roughly 30 days worth. 5 vials of blood should yield 30 days of serum drops. That's the math, I'm told. So with the 9 vials, I should have had more than 30 days. The pharmacist called the lab and asked what happened? The pharmacy did not receive the correct ml of serum that 9 vials would have produced. The lab had no answer. On top of that, their records said they drew 8. The pharmacist pressed on, even if it were 8, where is the rest of the serum?

After what I put myself through to get the extra serum, I wanted answers. I called my doctor's office to see if they can find out more. I had to drive an hour to the lab to get this done. I'm OK with people making mistakes, a vial is broken, etc. Or maybe each vial of "MY" blood does not produce the standard amount of serum, that's fine. But a big pause, a big no answer is scary to me. Just tell me what happened, even if it's a mistake. The pharmacist let me sit in his office while he made the call and for the life of him, he could not get LabCorp to tell him what happened with the extra serum that should have been sent over.

I just need to be thankful I have my drops. I just now put them in. I read they might be "sticky." They are not. They feel like velvet, little vials of liquid gold. Like the best eyedrops ever on the market. I sure hope I get the healing feeling over the next few days that others get. I'm thinking positive. But what the heck with LabCorp? I know, I know, I need to get over it so my eyes won't get upset. But still...............

[SAAG]

How frustrating!

Well, on the bright side, it's bound to go better the more you do it. The lab will get better at it, and you'll get better at it too with hopefully no more vomiting..(((hugs)))

[spmcc]

Back in 2006/2007 when my ophthalmologist prescribed autologous serum drops for me, she told me that she has another patient who has the same number of vials of blood drawn as she was prescribing me (5 x 10ml tubes - i.e., red tubes), but he gets only 3 weeks of 100% serum. I got 28 days of 100% serum (based on using one drop in each eye four times per day).

Even well-hydrated, I believe that the percentage of serum differs between people. Perhaps that is a factor here.

[Cali]

That is something I understand. Everyone is different, so perhaps there is no "standard" amount of serum to be derived from one vial of blood, but a range.

[spmcc]

Another thought is that the lab drew 8 (or 9 - who knows?!?!) *smaller* vials. I know that when I went for a draw, I double-checked that they were using the 10ml tubes! When she started to use another, I stopped her and asked her to check the paperwork because I was quite certain she needed the bigger tubes! Sometimes people are just on auto-pilot...

[Cali]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OK. I feel a little nuts now, since I was so upset. But, if that is the case, had I left after only supplying 5 vials, I would have only had 2 weeks of 100% serum. This all makes sense. I bet they typically draw 5 vials which supplies 3 months of serum at 20%. It's different for 100%. How much you get will depend on the size of the vials and perhaps how much serum is put into each little eye dropper vial. My drops are in small plastic droppers and I'm told to use them every 4-6 hours, and only keep an opened vial for 3 days. Lot's of variables.

[PotatoCakes]

So glad they seem to be working for you.

Agree with the others - different people get different amounts of serum, even with hydration. Make sure you continue to be hydrated going in for draws but you may not get as much as others equally hydrated (you'll get even less without being hydrated). Every person is different and although science may have averages, there are going to be people that go way over the average and people that end up with quite a bit less. Don't worry about going a little nuts; the fact is, you are new to this and your experience and heresay is all you have to go on. As you continue to use the drops and get more draws, you'll find out what is average for you & for the lab you use. Additionally, once your eyes have healed some, you may be able to drop the percentage of serum, netting you additional bottles of drops.

If it makes you feel any better re: getting fewer drops, my doctor told me that they aren't nearly as effective after a certain date, even when kept in the freezer http://www.dryeyezone.com/talk/showt...ht=serum+drops It's one of the reasons I upped my serum percentage, because I was getting so many drops at 50% that they weren't as effective by the time I used the last few bottles.

[spmcc]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OK. I feel a little nuts now, since I was so upset. But, if that is the case, had I left after only supplying 5 vials, I would have only had 2 weeks of 100% serum. This all makes sense. I bet they typically draw 5 vials which supplies 3 months of serum at 20%. It's different for 100%. How much you get will depend on the size of the vials and perhaps how much serum is put into each little eye dropper vial. My drops are in small plastic droppers and I'm told to use them every 4-6 hours, and only keep an opened vial for 3 days. Lot's of variables.

Just to be a little more specific: I got 5 x 10ml tubes of blood drawn. I ended up with 7 x 3ml vials of 100% serum. Each vial, once thawed, keeps in the fridge for 4 days. Each vial also lasted me ~4 days using one drop of 100% serum in each eye approx 4 times per day (altho in reality I was told I could use the drops as often as I wanted/needed). Therefore I had (at most) 28 days of 100% serum drops.

My doctor did mention to me, however, that her other patient who only gets 3 weeks' worth of 100% serum from the same draw (5 x 10ml) would not be "allowed" to have blood drawn every 3 weeks. I don't know how often you can get this amount of blood drawn. Does anyone here know? I would assume that every 3 weeks wouldn't be so much of a problem... just a hassle and perhaps costly (but not unlike everything else related to dry eye!!! ).

[farmgirl]

Wow Cali, quite the story I do hope the drops help after all that but YOU DID IT!! Yay for you....cheers...F/G

[Cali]

Just a quick update. The compounding pharmacy called to tell me they "overfilled" each vial. I am now to use each opened vial for 5 days, instead of what they told me when I picked them up, which was to use them for 3 days kept in the fridge then throw out.

To any newbie using getting serum drops for the first time, here's what I learned:
1. You need to be actively involved in the process.
2. You need to know what % serum you are getting, 100%, 50%, 20%, etc.
3. You need to know how many vials of blood the lab needs to draw to produce the amount of prescribed serum. Count them yourself when the lab tech finishes.
4. You need to know the size of the vials the lab tech will use to produce the amount of prescribed serum (they come in ml sizes, find out if they are 10ml, 4ml, etc.).
5. You need to know how many days supply this will net you. Note, this way you can have them draw more blood if you want more serum.
6. You need to know how much serum yields from each vial of blood (and the size of each blood vial). Basically #3 again.
7. You need to know what sized dropper the compounding pharmacy will provide the serum in, and how many days you can keep it in the fridge after opening.
8. If you're prone to getting sick while donating blood, ask for them to draw the blood with you laying prone on a table. This way, they won't need to drag you to a gurney if you go down.
9. As others mentioned earlier, hydrate well for 3 days prior, eat breakfast or lunch before your draw, bring some juice and/or power bar to get your blood sugar back up.
10. It's worth it!

Read SAAG and SMPCC posts above. They both know the exact details of their draws:
-SAAG: They draw 117 ml of blood (that's 13 vials containing 9 ml each), because for me, that makes about 50ml of 100% serum and lasts about 3 months.
-SMPCC: (5 x 10ml tubes - i.e., red tubes) I got 28 days of 100% serum (based on using one drop in each eye four times per day).

I didn't understand what this meant until now. I think it's important to know your numbers so you can control the process. Going forward I plan to be like SAAG and SMPCC and know my numbers as well.

[spmcc]

One other thing to know... 100% serum can be very thick. And sometimes it's too thick to come out of the dropper vial. I believe this is one reason why saline/BSS is added to create serum mixtures of 80%, 50% etc.

I don't know how others have worked around their plugged-up dropper vials! I assume a pin down the hole to clear the obstruction is NOT a good idea! For me, I ended up not being able to get some of the serum out and threw the vial away before using it all.

There are pros and cons to it all.

[SAAG]

For clogged bottles: usually if I give it a very vigorous shake or two, the clog dislodges and drops will come out again.

Also, I have a theory - there are always a few bottles where I can see what looks like a tiny bit of red floating around in the serum - for me, these are the bottles that I tend to have trouble with clogging - makes me thing that red stuff is what's clogging it - I assume a few red blood cells made their way into the serum when the pharmacist was trying to draw off the serum for transfer to eyedrop bottles.