MGD - expressing oil manually - question

[SallyP]

Hi, I'm so sorry to keep asking questions about this, but it's like 3 steps forward and 4 back at the moment. In the last couple of days, I have started to express the oil from the glands, following the hot compress.

There has been quite alot of oil coming out, which is apparently a good sign. Can only seem to get oil out in the morning? Also, since I've started to do it, my eyes have been much worse - is doing this something that makes them get worse before they get better, because they were so bad last night, I am considering not doing it ever again, but don't mind if it may be a means to an end???

[sandra lee]

Hi Sally,I'm not sure,but I had one doc told me to use tears after soak because of the oil coming out and I do believe it says the same in Dr.Latkany's book.I am not sure why but I am very confused about this whole thing myself.My question to you is how do you express your lids?I try but I don't seem to get oil out!When my doc does it I can see through the oil but he never rinses my eyes with tears.I hope someone can give you an answer.Sandra lee

[clairvoyant]

Best way I have found is using a wash cloth at the sink. It can be tedious though.

[rp123]

When you have used the wash cloth what do you do to express the oil from the upper lids. Would love some help.
Thanks

[SallyP]

I don't use a wash cloth, I use the small cotton wool pads, and change them about 3 times when the heat wears off. I simply push up on to the lower lids, and down on the upper lids, with my fingers on the skin just below my eyes, and on my eyeballs for the upper lid, but I don't get much out of the upper lids, but alot out of the bottom ones. I can't imagine it's doing alot for the skin around my eyes though!

[Kassandra]

My doc told me to use my finger (after thoroughly cleaning them!) and sorta rolling my finger down the upper lid and up the lower lid. I heard of using q-tips for this, but I find sometimes the tip slips and pokes me in the eye.

Apparently, it takes alot of pressure because I don't see anything coming out of those oil glands . The warm cloth is very soothing tho.
I may try my finger next time. sure seems like a lot of trouble with little result

[sandra lee]

I don't use a wash cloth, I use the small cotton wool pads, and change them about 3 times when the heat wears off. I simply push up on to the lower lids, and down on the upper lids, with my fingers on the skin just below my eyes, and on my eyeballs for the upper lid, but I don't get much out of the upper lids, but alot out of the bottom ones. I can't imagine it's doing alot for the skin around my eyes though!

Hi Sally,I am still experimenting with the routine(soak,massage,express) but I also wonder what it's doing to the surrounding eye area.Seems I've aged 10 years in 8 months.I do the expressing with my eyes closed because I'm afraid I'll poke my eyes.I hope I get the hang of it soon.

[SallyP]

Sandra Lee

It's such a performance - almost comical. I tried the cotton buds (Qtips I think you call them in the US), and like somebody else, stopped, because it shot into my eye.

I will continue with the manual expressing, as I think there's some improvement, and there's alot of gunk coming out in the mornings, but it makes me feel slightly sick when the oil comes out, and I tend to speed everything up at that point, because I don't like it, and like to remove it ASAP.

Oh well..........could be worse I suppose.

[sandra lee]

Hi Sally,Well I am glad that at least you are getting oil.Today is the first day I have noticed any(as I can't see well without my glasses)I can tell because It is really blurry after I do it.I guess everyone has a different way.My doc uses his finger also.How long have you had this condition?Are the soaks something we have to do forever?Thanks for your reply,I have been looking for someone to talk to about this(my doc doesn't have any interest-just live with it)but I am going for a 2nd opinion in July.He says my cheeks turn red because of the inflammation,but I don't understand the warm soaks.Doesn't heat irritate inflammation?Sorry for all the questions.Nice to talk to you.Take Care

[SallyP]

It's a pleasure :)

Doctors!! I went back to my GP about somethng else yesterday, and when I said "and about my eyes...." he actually rolled his eyes, although somewhat jokingly, I wasn't impressed. I'd like to see him roll them if he had my eyes
in the evening!!!

I too have questioned the merits of putting heat on an inflammation, but as far as I can gather, it's just to open up the blocked glands, but I do find the final splash of cold water after the oil expressing and before drops, the most comforting.

Regarding how long we'll have to do it, I think possibly always, think it's a case of keeping on top of it, but I'm not sure on that one. IN Dr Latkany's book, it says it can take up to 6 months to see an improvement, by which time we'll both have aged 10 years around the eyes!

I know I make jokes about it. I have to, or I get very down about it, as I did the other week, and I think that serves no purpose (for me anyway), and in fact can make things worse, so I try and stay positive.

Nice to talk to you.

[SallyP]

Sandra Lee

Also, there's a post just been put on by ALK-o'd, all about manually expressing oil etc, which is very interesting, give it a read, if you haven't already.

Sally

[sandra lee]

Hi Sally,Oh,I am so glad to have someone to talk to.Thanks.Yes,my doc acts like he's doing me a favor when he has to see me and is actually a very uncompassionate professional(unlike what Dr. Latkavy appears to be).He suggested I just go on with my life and accept this condition which I am trying to do but if he had my eyes he would be talking a different tune.I wonder if some of these Dr's had loved ones going through what a lot of people on this site are,if they would want them to be treated as a lot of us are.I am seeing my old Dr. in July(had to stop going to him as he dropped my insurance 2 years ago)and am hoping he may be of some help!!!!!!Sometime the soaks seem to relieve for awhile but sometimes it seems hopeless.I will look up the post you suggested and will keep researching and trying to get relief.Hope to keep in touch!Take Care

[odydnas]

Sandra Lee - if your cheeks turn red...you might have rosacea and/or ocular rosacea. Have you gotten checked for that?

SallyP - I'm sorry that you feel worse after the lid massagess. Oil coming out is a very good sign! Are the warm compresses too hot? Make sure they are warm, not hot. It should not turn your skin red. Are you doing the massages too hard? Dr. L says its important to be gentle and to not do them too hard. Also, if you have a lot of inflammation, Dr. L says to do cool compresses after your morning warm compress + massage, and do cool compresses throughout the day as needed. Those are the only things I can think of so far. I will post back if I can think of any more reasons. Let me know if it gets better or worse.

[sandra lee]

Hi,I have asked my doc if he thinks it is rosacea but he says it is just the inflammation.Which makes me wonder if that is true or not.I tend to think yes because sometimes when I wear the wraparound glasses they flare up badly and calm down after the glasses are off,so I wonder if the glasses hold in the heat and aggravate the inflammation.The redness will come(especially in heat and wind) and disappear just as fast.My blurriness used to get better at times but now it just is very blurry.One doc says it is because I am looking through the oils,but if my glands are supposedly like cement,that doesn't make sense either.Some people say the blurriness is from my eyes being dry.I am finding out that this condition is very complex and docs don't know much about it and don't seem to take it seriously because they don't realize the extreme discomfort people experience.I am grateful to have found this site to compare stories and it breaks my heart to read some of the posts by people on here who are so young and so much worse off than me.I wish you all find improvement and someday be healed.As my doc says he can do no more for me I am trying to target the inflammation myself.Best to All!!!

[irish eyes]

Regarding pressure on the lids -

I can only ever get anywhere with this if I press very hard although my lids do get very inflamed afterwards. My eyelids are quite swollen most of the time anyway so this is an added irritation - but `gentle massage' has never worked. :(

I remember when a hospital consultant expressed the glands for the first time; he warned me that it might hurt - and it did. He said I would need to exert a fair bit of pressure if I was to have any success with this.

Sandra - I agree with your point that doctors tend to be dismissive of this condition. At several stages along my journey, doctors have described my main problem as being an emotional one ie as I couldn't cope with the discomfort, then I should get some anti-depressants. It was even suggested that things might not be `right' between me & `hubby' and that perhaps this might be the source of the problem. That indeed was the word that was used. I wonder what he said to the men?

[sandra lee]

Yes,my doc usually pushes pretty hard on my lids(which I try to do but with little results). I did get some oil by following the advise of the post that said to pull the lid taut to the outside and applying the pressure(I had best results with using a q-tip at a sideways angle with my eyes closed)after a soak.I am sure that we need to keep doing the routine and not expect too much too soon.I have been using the thera tears eyemask in the mornings(has anyone had success with this?)and warm soaks during the day when my lids feel full or my cheeks get tingly.As for the docs who advise their patients that they need to seek professional help (pschiatrist or pschologist) to help them deal with this-SHAME on them.What we all need is a doctor with some compassion and interest in our condition that is willing to make an honest effort to do some research and try and help us.Not another doctor to give us anti-depressents!!!!!!I have been to my doc(and 2 of his partners) approx. 14 times in the last 8 months and after all the meds,drops,biopsy he has prescribed I am worse than when I started and he just about given up on me.I am just about to give up on him also.I find it amazing that so many have to go from doctor to doctor .Sorry this post is so long!!Best to All

[clairvoyant]

Well... when you get acclimated with the meibomian glands you'll know their feeling sorta. So do like a compress and focus on the meibomian glands.

[odydnas]

Sandra Lee,

I see that you live in New York. Is there any way you can make it over to Dr. Latkany's office? I think he is very good at hitting the correct diagnosis, and then you can move on from there to start treating your eyes.

[sandra lee]

Hi!I am in the waiting for an upcoming appt.(3rd opinion)that I made back in April with my old opthamologist(whom I had to stop seeing as he dropped my insurance 2 years ago) who I am hoping can help me.My next step is to try and get in to Dr. Latkany.Problem being is every new appt. takes months.I suppose because I am fairly new to this(had the condition for 8 months-but most recently diagnosed May 7th)I am just searching to understand how this meibomitis can be best treated.There are so many different opinions by different docs that it is extremely confusing.I am reading Dr. Latkany's book and he sounds too good to be true,so surely if I do not get any results in July I will try to connect with him.Thanks for your suggestion.

[SallyP]

I've persevered with expressing the oil, much as I can't stand doing it, and although they were undoubtedly worse to begin with, and I nearly gave up, there seems to be an improvement. As always though, I'm not getting carried away with excitement, as it could just be a good spell anyway, but fingers crossed.

[SallyP]

Also mean to say, the systane drops are definitely the best ones I've used so far, so that may well also contribute to the improvement.

[sandra lee]

Hi Sally,I am so glad you are seeing improvement.I hope you continue.Did you notice any improvement before and then go backwards?I was doing fairly well last week and since I have been noticing the oil a little bit my left eye mostly is more irritated and my upper cheeks tingling.Also,the preservative free drops seem to be aggravating.Has anyone been not able to use the preservative free?The docs say they are fine to use but I sometimes feel better without them and only use when I am very irritated.Has anyone ever asked if using preservative free tears too often can do damage as far as our diminishing our natural tear production?

[SallyP]

Hi Sandra Lee!

Whatever time is it where you are?!

Well, regarding the preservative free drops, I've used several that aggrevated my eyes beyond belief, and even the celluvisc which I used prior to the systane, and was the best one until then, I'm sure in the end irritated my eyes, and like you, sometimes felt better for not taking them. It was almost like an immediate relief, but after about 15 mins, I was worse.

My eyes can get better, and almost symptom free for a day or two or really bad for no apparent reason anyway, which is why I'm cautiously optimistic this time. I think I mentioned before I was thinking about writing a detailed diary about what I ate, where I went, what I did etc to see if I could make any link. In fact thinking about it, they got worse, then better, then particularly bad, the point I nearly stopped expressing the oil, and since then have improved greatly.

If I don't reply soon, it's because my 15 year old daughter is going on the computer shortly, and I probably went get a look in for the rest of the day!

Take care, and do keep in touch. You can always send me a private
message.

[irish eyes]

Sally

You sound to be getting the hang of things - are you managing with the top lids OK? I have to perform a delicate balancing act twixt mirror and upper body just to get the right angle of vision in the mirror. It's like DIY yoga.

I have given up on Systane (temporarily). I'm back to using Vismed but it is difficult to administer.

I tried keeping a food diary once but reached the conclusion that it wasn't worth it (in my case anyway). I know what kinds of environments are likely to exacerbate my eyes - and the times of day where they are likely to be really bad and that is about it. These are very broad headings but I've not managed to narrow it down any more than that. I pursued the food intolerance angle by doing the York test - www.yorktest.com Granted, the test is a 'blunt tool' rather than a precision instrument - it wasn't really designed to pick up on things like eye / skin problems. The only foods that came up as being possibilities were lettuce and egg white.

However, I noticed that they do testing for environmental allergens which might be worth you looking at. Unsure how much it costs but it could be cheaper than visiting an allergist - and this company is endorsed by Allergy UK